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Years Old
I bury hatchets, but I keep maps to where I put 'em.
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Post by Eden on Aug 27, 2021 11:30:00 GMT -5
Warning: this is long. But being that every time I summarize someone tries to paint me as a liar? The whole thing is what's happening.
When I stepped up to run WWH after Adrian left, there were some bumps. It wasn't smooth. I didn't know the storylines on Dystopia or some of its rules, I had to get to know a lot of characters pretty quick. I fucked up at times, tried to acknowledge those fuckups publicly and keep getting better. Because when I stepped up in his absence, it was because I saw a committed core roster of proven longtimers, and I knew that if I wanted to continue this fed that there'd naturally be expectations of certain things that that roster would want to keep consistent-- after all, if there's fed loyalty, there's bound to be elements inspiring that. Otherwise that roster would move on to somewhere else.
"But you were gone!" I was gone for a while, yes, due to that IRL that's supposed to be more important than RP, and that IRL had no ETA on when it'd be resolved. At least, that was the original reason I was willing to hand it over. I didn't want to be a roadblock on people continuing to have fun like Adrian was, and the established roster still wanted to play.
Thing is, from the time I handed over those passwords, I was never really gone. I was watching, which turned into being restaffed pretty shortly so I could handle stuff that people were missing like the forum top block code and roster page and claims sheet and other stuff. Reno was too busy killing off my staff character and then backtracking and resurrecting her as some kinda werewolf beast and then making her 'normal' again. Which it was my character and a power shift and I can roll with just about anything, but others weren't so comfy with it. WWH has long had an ambient weirdness of the supernatural type like hints that The Advisor had some kind of powers and the Red Door in Sanatorium, but it was kind of kept to a level where it didn't demand anyone RP supernatural stuff. I viewed the Red Door as a bit of an open plot device that'd give those that had to be away for a while something to work with, for that matter.
That's a pretty far cry from the new fedhead character levitating above the ring and slicing a referee in half with his laser eyes.
Then there were the issues people had with their characters being thrown on opposite shows willy-nilly and all the wordcounts being thrown out and rewritten. I tried at this point to explain that people signed up to specific shows with specific reasons and expectations, because Reno indicated that he wasn't aware of Dystopia's scaled wordcounts and maybe it was a misunderstanding. Which was roundly ignored.
Which should've been an alarm bell for me.
When I went to him about Azrael Erebus, because even from the profile I saw the warning signs of a character that wasn't going to contribute to fedwide storylines. I was assured the writer was good and we'd get along, and invited to talk to the handler privately when I was booked against them. At which point, they just outright said that the character was an alien with almost limitless superpowers and any time the character lost it was because he'd chosen to. Which to me after being in this game since 2004, when an RPer installs a writing device in their character that's a loophole out of selling results and other characters, I'm on guard. While anybody can nosell, up front building it into your character as the default response... is frankly entitled as fuck and an indication that they're not interested in anybody else's fun or stories but their own to me.
I took that to Reno privately and it was completely ignored and skipped over. I was asked to do something outside what I'd volunteered to do in staff, I straight up said that him ignoring my concern as a writer in his fed was wilting my enthusiasm to pick up more things for him as staff. I remade my point in staff chat, and was told that he considered it perfectly fine writing and I should suck it up and "deal with it" and write my promo. I decided that if that was good writing to someone then I didn't care to have that person judging my work and that I should go.
At which point the entire conversation was deleted from staff chat. I went and posted my goodbye in general chat...
"welp... I was trying to stay around so I could give my mark of approval to Sly for you guys' sake, as well as pass the Asylum belt off to someone. believe I expressed as much to Sly, rolled with being booked in this dark match and Sanatorium anyway because I thought he needed warm bodies to put in matches...
"but it looks like we have a major disagreement going on about the limits of competing characters on inhuman abilities, and on fair play and selling as components of good writing.
"which he's since deleted from staff chat and seemingly blocked me in DM, after throwing things I'd worried about in private to him in my face like weapons. and he may well delete this and block me from the Discord too, but I figure some will see it before he does, and I thought you all had the right to know.
"maybe I really am being too picky, if you guys think so too and choose to stay behind then no hard feelings on my part. just not going to stay somewhere and make myself write in something that smothers my creativity this hard where the fedhead just seems to consider that creativity a nitpick."
Which was promptly deleted and I was destaffed, then later booted out of chat. The passwords I'd given him to run the root admin account on the boards and Twitter were changed along with the emails.
At which point, I'd have stayed gone if that was that. I informed my storyline partner I was going and just... sat back and tried watching TV as a hobby instead, and wrote in private. But thing is, people notice stuff like the former fedhead current staff disappearing with no goodbye. They come and ask. And out of all the pre-Reno roster I talked to privately... not /one/ of them had no issue with the things he'd done.
At which point I admittedly changed my mind, under the logic that if he wanted to come in and change basically everything into his brainchild, bring in a bunch of new people who seemingly had issues in their old feds (and many of whom kinda became his flying monkeys later), tell me privately that if he had control of the Discord he'd boot the person I entrusted it to very deliberately to begin with for his responsibility level (along with others who didn't go along with all his ideas), disregard the issues of the entire pre-established roster who've shown their value... then he wasn't taking over the fed like I did, he was cannibalizing the WWH name and the captive audience of the established roster as shortcuts in building a new fed. And I decided he'd beyond abused the trust that was given to him, and took the boards back.
Reno left the Discord (he was never kicked, I now have the admin logs on the Dis to prove that), unblocked me on Facebook Messenger to tell me his very dangerous friends were going to come for me and threaten to out me as trans in Texas to people who wouldn't like that, then deleted those threats. Then one of his friends said he wanted to be invited back. I said that was fine if he wanted to actually talk about this. He came in and immediately went to warning that if the fed wasn't returned within 3 minutes his dangerous friends would destroy everything. As of yet, that's kinda been constrained to the Twitter, which I'm waiting on my support request on still. When he wouldn't use his words like a grown up with me, I decided he didn't get his toys back and he was banned.
His friends didn't like that and while I humored trying to talk it out with him, they proceeded to kinda ignore everything I said and repeat themselves and when it hit the point where the established roster was telling them to shut up and that the drama was compromising them wanting to stay, I booted the flying monkeys too.
And that's... where we are.
I'm... gonna try to run this ship again. I'd be happy to co-fedhead with somebody who understands the brands and would like to take one up, providing they can listen to the roster about what's wanted here and maybe don't have a history of doing this elsewhere (apparently he did a lock out on Strike Force Wrestling too, which I didn't know till after I deposed him).
I've got a lot of trust to earn back, and not just about my judgment on people. I was basically dead in the water for months. And while I can say that in the last couple months my new job has just about doubled my income which eased financial issues, given me an opening to get health insurance to take care of my body and brain better, while giving me a steady 40 hours working from home where I can do some of the simpler gruntwork during slow periods so everything isn't so behind... and that we'll be keeping the short results on weeklies because that was an amputation that needed to happen...
That's words, and I'm going to have to prove it.
One thing that's changing is that I won't be competing here while I run the place. This whole thing has essentially written my characters out and I don't see a need to write them back in outside of staff or support roles to you guys. It also gives me more free time and focus to try to make sure that my previous want of finding everyone something to do more of a reality.
Another is that it's made me very aware of my priorities. Not just improving the place, but improving (or simplifying) in the directions wanted by those playing specifically. Which means I'll be encouraging suggestions and talking to people one on one, and probably putting up polls or something similar so it's not just the squeakiest wheels getting the grease. I'll also be redoing the claims and roster posts soon, so if you have changes or want to leave or come back at this point it's a good time to do so.
As a final note, some people will be angry about this still. That's your right, if it's you.
And I'm going to open the floor to reactions, questions, and other points of view at this time.
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Former Champion
24 POSTS & 5 LIKES
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Post by Renée Jonae on Aug 27, 2021 16:15:31 GMT -5
I don't have a big opinion on all the supernatural stuff, mostly because tbh I haven't really read much outside of the Zolton/Cedrone content. (Though I recall Homelander gifs and a zombie Taylor Swift image XD) but in general I don't have an issue with either outlook in efedding.
I will say it's great to see you are in a better place now and I think you come off more collected.
I'm still on break(I wasn't supposed to come back yet after taking myself off the roll call, in case anyone was curious about my prior absence that might have been confused as a main event no show. Thankfully Zolton was great to work with to resolve things after the mistake.[being charitable since I read back and someone else even mentioned I took myself off, yet I was somehow booked by your replacement anyways.])
But I wanted to log on and throw my support towards you and the fed.
I'm sorry you had to deal with all that, you didn't deserve the treatment you got, no one does. I hope things go well under you again!
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Former Champion
33 POSTS & 5 LIKES
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Post by Jonny Cedrone on Aug 27, 2021 23:00:17 GMT -5
The first part of this may sound like it's coming from a character on Full House or something but, I do my best to get along with everybody and I try to be at least somewhat likeable.
So with that said, not to sound like a jerk (especially after saying all that) but we can make things happen with whoever's in charge. We have a strong roster of roleplayers that love this game, are good at their craft and look forward to working and stay at work.
I just wish that any and all drama would just stop. I mean I know, no matter where you go, no matter what fed you're in, you're gonna get drama. It's like this game mirrors the real deal just a touch too much with the "backstage politics and drama". Given the talent here, I think we can and should rise above it all. We're much too good for all that. I signed up here in January of last year and already we've been through three or four administrations. I'm grateful that we were able to keep doing our thing (minus the hiatus) but the drama sucks.
I've got a World Title to win and I can't keep focus on it with everything happening in the back. lol
I'm not going to speak on what happened between Eden and Reno because I wasn't there, I wasn't either participant of it, and I know that every story has at least two sides to it. What I will say is that I'm glad we're not taking a break again. I'm thankful for anyone that has, is and will step up because those that do are much better people than I am.
Now, I heard there were refreshments. Could someone point me in the right direction please?
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Professional
11 POSTS & 2 LIKES
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Post by "Iron" Adam Malone on Aug 27, 2021 23:25:23 GMT -5
In reality, this situation is already handled with and we are where we are now, but you asked for opinions. So here it goes.
In my experience, Adrian was a big fan of the supernatural stuff. When we launched Asylum(now Sanatorium), he first wanted it to be somewhat of a hell dimension where his 8 foot' something tall character would drag them to hell essentially, and the fighters would have to compete to leave over time. He had to be convinced to put realism into the premise, or we'd have a dangerously small roster for that brand. We convinced him of the "convicted crimes" route, which is still used. There were numerous times he'd have to be convinced NOT to post something ridiculous. My own opinion on supernatural writing is mixed. I understand people want to have fun, though I do tend to prefer the supernatural stuff left to character development rps or off camera and the like. I had yet to see a huge issue with these characters, but who knows what would have occurred.
I suppose this brings me to the bit about the handler of Azrael. I just wanted to add this bit, because I had a different experience with this handler. Albeit, I'm against a different character that maybe isn't Overpowered, but I did want to share my experience. We spoke about sparking a rivalry off this match between our characters, and where we could take it. None of our talk about the rivalry was supernatural, despite this character also being an alien. She did give me some unneeded backstory on the alien stuff, but some people are really into their characters and want you to understand their motives, that’s how I took it. When it was announced that she would be the Sanatorium GM, and since I'd expressed interest, she offered her DMs if I ever had any questions or concerns about the show in the future. This doesn't negate your experience with this person, but I thought it was important I share my own.
The crossing of the shows was a bit strange, I do agree there. I asked about it and was told it was a special show for the return, though with the release of the second Dystopia I guess we know that wasn't entirely true. I can see how it would be frustrating if I was on a certain show for the deadline or the word count.
The main thing I was looking for when reading this is why this even occurred. You gave a lot of info on a fight between the two and how it escalated (I don't mean to glaze over the very unforgiveable threat you received, but I'm trying to categorize the parts strictly between the two of you). I do believe you did the best you could, and my interactions with you lead me to believe you're an understanding person but what went wrong? I try to look at other aspects. You mentioned how others were unhappy with what was occurring here, and I wonder how those conversations went (assuming they occurred at all). I do wonder how much your own treatment from him played into your decision.
I realize that could come off kinda harsh, depending on how it's read. I don't pretend to know the whole story(I know you wrote a lot but we both know there'd be no way to write it all), I wasn't even around when this popped off, and for all I know, some of this may even be misconstrued because of my own POV on this issue. I will say, YOUR version of WWH is top tier, comparably. I far prefer the realism, and god forbid we have a show that makes sense. Adrian had a habit of being a bit messy, and a multitude of stories from writers who didn't feel listened to. It was clear, from the beginning, you had a good head on your shoulders, and without Adrian around, plus a good driver, this place hit a stride. I know being a fedhead is fuckin' exhausting, I've been there. I have a respect for anyone willing to give up that much time for others to have fun. You've done a lot of hard work in order to make lemonade out of lemons. The IRL stuff is IRL stuff, and I don't think anyone would fault you for that. I think the general response from chat has already proven that the members here are more than happy to have you back. Most of the mainstays just want a drama-free place they can write and have fun, and I know you're about that.
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CEO
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
I bury hatchets, but I keep maps to where I put 'em.
601 POSTS & 58 LIKES
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Post by Eden on Aug 28, 2021 19:15:31 GMT -5
to Renee, thank you for the support, you've always been a bright presence here as far as I've been here. it means a lot.
Cedrone, I understand the concern with drama and... I'm thinking about how to handle it where it's less volume for those who don't want to see it, but also without censoring people or losing transparency with you guys on how I'm handling things.
Malone... a history lession is appreciated. before my time, gives some context to how Adrian handled things too. and I considered how to weigh it in the offer I pitched earlier today. and I can appreciate your skepticism on some stuff too, which just sparked a thought on another plan I'd thought up in trying to build an option for people who feel unheard but don't want the confrontation or perceived bias of bringing their issue up with those in power or in the more general OOC spaces.
I'll hit up the offer part first. I talked to Chaos and Reno today over Reno's position in this and threats, Chaos left holding one of the two tag belts and also having interest in still being staff and who I have no definable issue with. (yeah, I'll still give the guy who death threatened me an ear apparently, whatever that means about me as a person is up to interpretation.) my offer was this-- a hard brand split. one side with the more wacky supernatural/superpowered shenanigans that have been folded into WWH canon along the way and been part of some of the lineage of fedheads' visions for those who wanted it and didn't mind the wildcard elements, helmed by Chaos with Reno. one side that was a more 'normal' competitive atmosphere, to be run by me and Soulless. the idea would've basically involved the normie brand viewing the wild brand as built on movie trickery, the wild brand would've seen the normie brand as talented muggles for lack of a better term. while crossover potential would have to be much less common and negotiated on a case by case basis, it'd give options, which is what I've always seen Sanatorium and Dystopia and later Isle embodying.
I think they're not done talking yet, but the reception I got was that even if I adminned a Chris Chaos staff account, it wasn't acceptable unless I gave away the root admin account, which is different and special and what I retook to get the boards back. and honestly, the way I went about that is what I consider my biggest mistake in any of this. when it was Reno who stepped up to take the keys I was offering, I should've considered that over half the matches he wrote for us in the past brought up people having issues with the liberties and off the charts wacko angles he used, and at the very most made him an admin who could edit the skin and do what needed doing without being root admin and bulldozing over voices of dissent. there's a feature on Twitter too that I haven't messed with but which allows you to let other Twitter users post on a business/group account while retaining root access to it too. I know way way better than to try password sharing when it comes to infosec shit like that, no matter how I felt in the moment. I fucked up and was left in a position where I had to choose whether it'd be a bigger mistake to stand back and let things continue to escalate in the direction I was watching them move or to intervene and try to course correct and risk the split of the roster and loss of respect and fallout and everything that's kinda happened.
I spent some days with it and had some conversations and yeah. which I realize saying those conversations happened in private leaves me with just my own words, and trying to recap something said with the expectation of privacy while stripping personally identifiable info out of it can be like skinning it alive. so that brings me to idea two.
the initial thought was that while I handle criticism in a more conversation-open format than Reno does, and try to weigh that input against my own self image as fair as I can... I can go on at a length some find exhausting, I can be very blunt, and I can only imagine how much has wound up held back from me. especially in the wake of the public rounds gone in this year's attempts at trying to give somebody an opportunity to run with the ball when I couldn't. and I'm looking into options to set up a survey that I both wouldn't be able to see the source on but would also be low on abuse factors. I've got a theory or two.
while I was at it, Malone's comment earlier about not being able to back up the conversations I've had with something in a shareable format sparked the thought of using those same formats to create an ongoing comments dropbox of sorts where you'd go in knowing you could sent me a thought without your name attached, but that it'd be my option to post those words sent publicly so you need to find a way to frame it from the get go that you were comfortable with.
both are still in the works with some viable candidates that I need to go through for their abuse reduction elements.
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Post by Azrael Erebus on Aug 28, 2021 19:20:53 GMT -5
Whenever I write anything describing amazing abilities or feats no normal person can possibly attempt, it's always IC and in my rps. The first thing I did was ask Soulless, what's the set up like in Sanitorium, give me the lay of the land and what I was allowed to change. Soulless was quite helpful and I appreciate the knowledge I was bestowed.
I remember getting along with you in a private conversation, Eden and I looked forward to facing V. The point of any of my characters is that while being different, they still experience drama and put their pants on, one leg at a time, just like anyone else. Yes, IC I will have certain characters be cocky or arrogant but it's all make believe. I don't seriously think any of my characters (That's including Azrael) are unbeatable OOC and if I gave you that impression, I apologize.
All I was doing was retelling old stories but there's times when I shit the bed and didn't write, yet that isn't the only way I lost. Sometimes, the other writer was better, other times I was facing myself, so no matter what I still won, lol. I'm not entitled, I've simply put a lot of stock into my characters, time and effort. I also filled out a couple of the roster pages, in all of five minutes and intended to either go back and edit or do a series of flashback rps. I like a slow reveal. Anyway, I have done both IC... no sell and said oh, wow! I was wrong about you, so and so. You're a worthy adversary.
Eden, you asked me for old rps and I told you the fed I used to be involved in, I never wanted to go back to it in order to retrieve what you requested. That had nothing to do with IC elements and simply dealt with a bunch of as you would say "entitled" individuals, only having their friends win. They constantly broke the fourth wall too and brought OOC elements into IC things. Like using my real name in IC sections and shockingly strange enough, it was the owner of the fed that did it. Which is a big problem for me. Also, if you weren't a part of their "in crowd", you were nothing and a joke, so I left. After several occasions of turning the other cheek, so to speak because the owner liked to talk down to people and act like an impudent child.
In closing, words in a story, are just words and I have always been able to roll with any storyline and never ignored anyone's ideas, when presented to me - which is why Adam and I were on the same page and planned a feud; however, it's all fiction though. Regardless, if I write as a zombie or an alien... or an average, regular dude. Heck, I even had Azrael, try to relate to V in my second rp and speak of how they weren't that different, after all. Still, perception is everything and I am sorry if I gave you a bad vibe, it was not my intention to do such a thing.
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Post by Azrael Erebus on Aug 28, 2021 19:36:02 GMT -5
Also, I don't want to be "that guy" but you said I made it like my character has super powers and only loses when he wants to lose and in truth, I didn't memorize our conversations but I did go back and I believe if I am being judged, this should be noted. This was a message I sent to you, regarding the character Azrael.
InZane In The Membrane — 08/14/2021 Now, Az can snap his fingers and make whatever he wants happen But he ascended to that level When he wrestles though, he choose to avoid doing this sort of thing Cause where's the fun in that It's like playing chess You do it to enjoy the outcome, otherwise what's the point? He does use his powers for other aspects though Mostly helping others
*chooses - sorry I had to correct myself, lol.
This was the follow up afterwards.
nivision — 08/14/2021 uh huh i hope you won't be upset by my character's view of yours. he's... extremely skeptical to anything beyond provable science InZane In The Membrane — 08/14/2021 Nah I never get upset
So I don't understand. I specifically mentioned the opposite of what you claimed. I'm sorry, I don't get where you got that I would do what you stated and I apologize, if there was something that led you to believe it but it isn't that way, at all. I'm willing to work with anyone and roll with anything, story wise.
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CEO
USER IS OFFLINE
Years Old
I bury hatchets, but I keep maps to where I put 'em.
601 POSTS & 58 LIKES
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Post by Eden on Aug 28, 2021 20:13:38 GMT -5
Whenever I write anything describing amazing abilities or feats no normal person can possibly attempt, it's always IC and in my rps. The first thing I did was ask Soulless, what's the set up like in Sanitorium, give me the lay of the land and what I was allowed to change. Soulless was quite helpful and I appreciate the knowledge I was bestowed. I remember getting along with you in a private conversation, Eden and I looked forward to facing V. The point of any of my characters is that while being different, they still experience drama and put their pants on, one leg at a time, just like anyone else. Yes, IC I will have certain characters be cocky or arrogant but it's all make believe. I don't seriously think any of my characters (That's including Azrael) are unbeatable OOC and if I gave you that impression, I apologize. All I was doing was retelling old stories but there's times when I shit the bed and didn't write, yet that isn't the only way I lost. Sometimes, the other writer was better, other times I was facing myself, so no matter what I still won, lol. I'm not entitled, I've simply put a lot of stock into my characters, time and effort. I also filled out a couple of the roster pages, in all of five minutes and intended to either go back and edit or do a series of flashback rps. I like a slow reveal. Anyway, I have done both IC... no sell and said oh, wow! I was wrong about you, so and so. You're a worthy adversary. Eden, you asked me for old rps and I told you the fed I used to be involved in, I never wanted to go back to it in order to retrieve what you requested. That had nothing to do with IC elements and simply dealt with a bunch of as you would say "entitled" individuals, only having their friends win. They constantly broke the fourth wall too and brought OOC elements into IC things. Like using my real name in IC sections and shockingly strange enough, it was the owner of the fed that did it. Which is a big problem for me. Also, if you weren't a part of their "in crowd", you were nothing and a joke, so I left. After several occasions of turning the other cheek, so to speak because the owner liked to talk down to people and act like an impudent child. In closing, words in a story, are just words and I have always been able to roll with any storyline and never ignored anyone's ideas, when presented to me - which is why Adam and I were on the same page and planned a feud; however, it's all fiction though. Regardless, if I write as a zombie or an alien... or an average, regular dude. Heck, I even had Azrael, try to relate to V in my second rp and speak of how they weren't that different, after all. Still, perception is everything and I am sorry if I gave you a bad vibe, it was not my intention to do such a thing. I replied right before you did B and... want you to know that like... I'm parsing how to reply still and like to be honest you seem like a really nice person which is why I held back my initial reaction to the character, and took it to somebody I was trying to trust with making big calls to diffuse some tension because I have Big Blunt Factor to a neuroatypical degree... and he responded by slamming the boards/discord doors I rebuilt in my own face. and in Soulless' face who's been here longer than both me and Reno combined probably. and in the faces of other people who didn't deserve it. and the real root ugly ass issue is the door slamming in faces, not you as a creator or person. like, those who were around before Reno know I used to write feedback columns every week that I could trying to give everybody a piece of both what I liked and what I felt didn't work in a helpful tone. ( efedwwh.proboards.com/board/48/forbidden-fruit if anyone wants to go 'splorin') and I hate that it wound up in a place where, even if it wasn't my main point, I was still the unhelpful dickbag shitting on someone else's fun instead of trying to forge more of it. imma elaborate on my issue in your second here... Also, I don't want to be "that guy" but you said I made it like my character has super powers and only loses when he wants to lose and in truth, I didn't memorize our conversations but I did go back and I believe if I am being judged, this should be noted. This was a message I sent to you, regarding the character Azrael. InZane In The Membrane — 08/14/2021 Now, Az can snap his fingers and make whatever he wants happen But he ascended to that level When he wrestles though, he choose to avoid doing this sort of thing Cause where's the fun in that It's like playing chess You do it to enjoy the outcome, otherwise what's the point? He does use his powers for other aspects though Mostly helping others This was the follow up afterwards. nivision — 08/14/2021 uh huh i hope you won't be upset by my character's view of yours. he's... extremely skeptical to anything beyond provable science InZane In The Membrane — 08/14/2021 Nah I never get upset So I don't understand. I specifically mentioned the opposite of what you claimed. I'm sorry, I don't get where you got that I would do what you stated and I apologize, if there was something that led you to believe it but it isn't that way, at all. I'm willing to work with anyone and roll with anything, story wise. you do get that in that literal chat you posted just as it was said, you're still basically saying the equivalent of 'my character chose to lose because he chose not to use his superpowers on you, which could've defeated you easily mwahahaha' though? as somebody who built a character to be in kayfabe on an equal level with those I literally compete against in the form of "who's the best writer"? I literally built in flaws that are flaws into him-- both to give the other guy something to attack, and to explain why my character would lose, because losing is inevitable it's just odds. not kinda lose but not really lose because he's secretly the most special, because that essentially yanks the win out of the other person's hands in IC consequences and is pretty damn wilting to those who have to accommodate it. actually lose. I mean, we're putting the whole decision of who wins in the hands of someone else, that's the point. if I lose, I'm gonna react to the in-universe hit in prestige and the physical damage, let it elevate the person who earned it, and rethink my approach-- not just yeet it out the window. that's part of the gamble both characters put on the table when they walk in. and moreover... it's basic level storytelling that your main character facing challenges and struggling and overcoming them is what people are turning up for. people love that shit because it's relatable, because we all struggle, and we all have issues to overcome. and maybe you do some of that. I don't have your work at my disposal, just the one thing that wasn't even posted when I went to Reno and then was tossed out on my head before I could try to attack from the IC perspective I'd hatched up. but you seem to do it while not giving your actual opponents the privilege of being the sources of challenge and struggle. and frankly? I'm boggled how you could've been in efedding for 9 years and not heard this already. or writing in general. I believe that you've written a lot, you use words in a practiced manner and with good flow.
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Post by Azrael Erebus on Aug 28, 2021 20:30:06 GMT -5
No, he chooses not to use his powers because then, they're fighting at the same level; warrior vs warrior, he's still going to do everything to win by wrestling but he won't snap his fingers and put someone in the center of the sun. I also said where's the fun in that, meaning Azrael wants to see how things pan out if he simply battles the opposition, the same as anyone else. I described it as a chess match. Which is a battle of wits. It's a strategic effort. Knowing when and how to attack. Opposed to saying, I only lost because I didn't use powers, that wouldn't make sense in that scenario. Why would he enjoy experiencing the fray that led to the outcome or want to know how things play out, if he later uses that as an excuse? Then why go through the movements at all, right? As for his opinions, there's no set way to react. And both my rps against V are in the Dystopia section.
PS. Thank you for the compliment, I enjoy your writing abilities as well. That's why I was looking forward to our match btw. I went and read all your previous material here as V.
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Post by Eden on Aug 28, 2021 21:09:16 GMT -5
there's only so much more I can say. the phenomena I'm citing are established things-- godmoding in RPing and Mary Sue/Gary Stu in fanfic writing.
whether Azrael qualifies or not... is, like basically everything in "good" or "bad" writing, a matter of opinion I suppose? which is a whole new rabbithole to go down.
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Former Champion
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Post by Jonny Cedrone on Aug 28, 2021 21:34:11 GMT -5
Soooo...here's a dumb question.
We're talking about those with superpowers/supernatural powers. Of course, as a wrestling fan, when I think of the supernatural in wrestling, we all know that Undertaker, Kane and The Fiend come to mind, but Papa Shango also comes to mind to the older wrestling fans. In the efedding world, specifically here, I think of Havoc, and unless I read his roleplays wrong I also think of Zolton. I'm not taking anything away from Zolton because I'm enjoying working with him as well, but I thoroughly enjoyed working with Havoc. Using his supernatural powers, you can sell and play off that character sooooo well!
So my question is: is there any beef with the supernatural stuff like with Havoc or am I reading that the true beef lies with the zombies (I'm already dead, you can't kill me), aliens (I'm from another planet and my abilities and strengths are out of this world...literally) and "Superman" type stuff? You shoot me, the bullets will just bounce off. You punch me, the bones in your hand and wrist just crumple. I have no weaknesses.
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Post by Azrael Erebus on Aug 28, 2021 21:49:57 GMT -5
Oh, I always have said Azrael and Zane can feel pain, it's just the recovery process is quicker. Azrael can bleed though, people can punch him without hurting themselves and bullets do not bounce off his chest. He isn't Superman. Yet, even if he were Superman, the man of steel still has weaknesses and has died. Azrael isn't Superman, he's more like Doctor Who, minus the police box and with additional, extraordinary powers. And Zane can be killed, much like all zombies in films and tv shows. Zane will say, what are you going to do to me, I'm already dead but in the past he's had bad stuff happen in matches. He was decapitated in the past, so I had his body chase down the head and after using some super glue and duct tape, his head melded back onto his body. He's like a snowman in that regard, lol. But if his brain was destroyed, he wouldn't be walking around anymore.
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Post by Eden on Aug 28, 2021 22:43:40 GMT -5
honestly my only concrete hesitancy over supernatural/superpowers stuff is
1) does it give you some preternatural edge in the actual competition (super strength, invulnerability, speed, are you psychic and know what your opponent would do before they do it)
and
2) does it modify reality in an overt way that can't be rationally explained by a nonbeliever so that people HAVE to sell your reality mods that weren't preestablished in the relative universe you're playing in (like with Zane, if I had to play it off with V? he'd just think the guy must have Cotard delusion, which is a mental illness where you believe you're dead-- unless his head popped off when they were actually in the ring togther, at which I'm left either scrambling in an unenviable spot or modifying my character's reality to compensate)
I've played weird ass characters before. like I have a character named Berlin that I used at points in efedding mostly to get a hang of him and a space to gauge an idea... every time he falls asleep, he actually falls into a random other universe instead of dreaming. it let me set up some creative CD situations where the random universe reflected his opponent in metaphorical form, which really pushed me as a writer even if people rarely seemed to get what I was doing. but that doesn't change his likelihood of winning IC; if anything it's a disadvantage since he feels like his mind never gets turned off and truly rests. most of his friends and family take it as him having atypical narcolepsy and extraordinarily vivid dreams-- I set up that as an alternate explanation and I leave it up to the reader to decide which thing is true to them, or if both are.
Levi Tsingine, who I've played here? has a canon of private stuff where he's an actual skinwalker where I and my writing partner were exploring the lore and heritage in that and writing rules in an urban fantasy kind of way. it's something I've been cautious of broaching publicly because of the superstition around talking about them, plus I'm not personally Navajo even if my people are/were basically their neighbors and even share some modern reservation areas with them, so I'm careful with what isn't fully mine to inherit. I know at least how I set it up in my head? when he's human he's fully human, when he's an animal he doesn't have a significant advantage over that species either, and even if he wanted to swap opposable thumbs for long fangs he wouldn't ever do that in eyeshot of a normal person because consensual reality would melt down into post apocalyptic witch hunts and it'd land him in a government laboratory to boot. even if I felt like putting it in off camera character development out in the Badlands a hundred miles from nowhere then it doesn't demand anything of another writer to react to it. if he did mention it, I'd be totally cool with the other writer reacting to it like "my dude, you must be higher than God's balls... how are you not in Sanatorium?" which would've been my tactic for Azrael roughly with V if pushed.
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Post by Azrael Erebus on Aug 28, 2021 22:52:57 GMT -5
And I would have enjoyed such a tactic. It actually gave me a chuckle. I enjoy well executed banter.
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Post by XWF on Aug 30, 2021 9:53:18 GMT -5
Eden, you asked me for old rps and I told you the fed I used to be involved in, I never wanted to go back to it in order to retrieve what you requested. That had nothing to do with IC elements and simply dealt with a bunch of as you would say "entitled" individuals, only having their friends win. They constantly broke the fourth wall too and brought OOC elements into IC things. Like using my real name in IC sections and shockingly strange enough, it was the owner of the fed that did it. Which is a big problem for me. Also, if you weren't a part of their "in crowd", you were nothing and a joke, so I left. After several occasions of turning the other cheek, so to speak because the owner liked to talk down to people and act like an impudent child. So... I felt compelled to arrive and touch on this stuff after reading this paragraph. I find it kind of odd whenever this "they only have their friends win" thing gets levied at me and at XWF. I am sure every fed gets accused of it to some extent, so it's not too surprising, but it always makes me shake my head when someone who has been around for as long as Brenda here has been. Brenda - you won plenty, and you were never a part of my "clique" in any way. You also lost a lot. This was mostly because you like to opt in to each show with like 5 different characters and no-show with half of them. As a matter of fact, the day you quit was because I approached you about yet another no-show. You bringing up "using your name in IC sections" is just silly. I think that may have happened one time when you took over a thread by having 4 or 5 of your different accounts talk to each other and completely get away from the point of the original post. I'd have to go and dig it up to be sure, but I believe I just made a crack about "and here's Brenda talking to herself again." By that point no one else was even reading the thread except you to reply to yourself. We used to make cracks about how you had so many characters you should have your own battle royal against all of yourselves. It was a joke. This is a weird thing to see brought up as some sort of insult against an efed. To my knowledge, you and I only had issues once or twice. Even going back years ago into the past when you pretended to be a gay man OOC to get other queer handlers to open up to you, I didn't treat you badly. You got banned for all that stuff, but it wasn't by me. I'm the one who "turned the other cheek" and let you back in. I'm also the one who put you back on our "Top 50" list earlier this year, even after you ragequit over being called out for another no-show, after you had previously been removed from it (again, not by me). The only instances I recall where you showed any sort of displeasure was once when I had Vinnie Lane IN CHARACTER get confused and pretend Azrael was female and therefore eligible for the women's championship due to the fact that you had filled out Azrael's roster and referred to him as being "genderless." You FREAKED OUT over this IN CHARACTER dialogue and blew up my PMs over it for most of a day. Considering how harmless and silly that whole thing was meant to be, it is still kind of weird to me how upset you were over it - but I adjusted things and we moved on. No harm no foul, IMO. Still, you stated there was no issue with anything IC, but that right there is demonstrably false. The second issue was when I asked you to not have a character that was a literal, actual real-life Nazi. Yes, it was a character you'd had for a long time (named NAZI) and yes you had of course "evolved" it into some sort of fantastical scifi character like you do with all of them, so now he was a werewolf and not JUST a Nazi. But as you knew, I wanted to get away from all that edgy shock-value type of RPing in the fed after I fully took it over, and I let you know I didn't want a character named NAZI running around doing Nazi stuff because DUH. You got upset because you don't like censorship blah blah blah but you did change the name and barely used the character afterward, so kudos for that. I also had to approach you because I caught wind of your plan to sneak someone back into the fed that I had banned. Most people probably would have kicked you out of their fed outright for that sort of thing. Maybe it's what got you banned from Revo1? I don't actually know what got you axed over there, but I know you and the same person you tried to sneak into XWF both got the boot. I didn't ban you or even punish you in any way shape or form, though, I just told you it was a problem for me and that it was not something I was going to allow. You pretty much admitted your wrongdoing there. So - I am not seeing where all this alleged "talking down" or "unfair" treatment came into play, here. You were always booked however you wanted to be booked. We let you have a half dozen characters all over the place even though everyone knew it meant that at best a few of them would get crappy, half-assed RPs because you ran out of time, or would just be no-shows completely. You had title matches and won titles. I brainstormed an inter-fed angle with you and Revo1 because you wanted to. It was crap, because the guy they chose for their end of it wasn't very good, but I still went along with it and treated it like it was a part of the overall canon. So where was all this poor treatment? Where was the bias? Where was the "clique?" Who was I giving special treatment to because they were "my friend?" Because it SOUNDS like I gave you PLENTY of leeway and treated you great, regardless of what stunts you pulled. Please, just spell it out. Who got special treatment? Who won that didn't deserve to win? What titles changed hands when they shouldn't have? Who got treated poorly? When did you get screwed out of a win? Was it when I booked you for a shot at the Anarchy championship and you no showed again? Should you have won instead? The rest of all this drama isn't really my concern other than rolling my eyes at us getting accused of any sort of "hacking" in any fashion. Feel free to have a conversation with me, Brenda. Or anyone else for that matter. Keep it civil, though.
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